Vermont U.S. Senate candidates Bernie Sanders, Gerald Malloy debate at NBC5 studio
Updated: 11:10 PM EDT Oct 25, 2024
2024 SPECIAL PRESENTATION. THE VERMONT US SENATE DEBATE. THANKS FOR JOINING US TONIGHT FOR THIS PRIME TIME DEBATE. I’M BRIAN COLLERAN AND I’M LIZ STRZEPA. ELECTION DAY IS FAST APPROACHING. AND JOINING US IN OUR STUDIO TONIGHT ARE THE TWO MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATES FOR VERMONT’S U.S. SENATE SEAT, INDEPENDENT INCUMBENT BERNIE SANDERS AND HIS REPUBLICAN CHALLENGER, GERALD MALLOY. MR. SANDERS IS SEEKING A FOURTH TERM IN THE U.S. SENATE. HE SERVES AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR AND PENSIONS COMMITTEE. HE ALSO SERVES ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE, THE ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMITTEE, AND THE SENATE BUDGET COMMITTEE. BEFORE HIS TIME IN THE SENATE, HE SERVED 16 YEARS IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, RAN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2016, AND 2020. HE WAS THE MAYOR OF THE CITY OF BURLINGTON FOR MUCH OF THE 1980S. MR. MALLOY IS A WEST POINT GRADUATE WHO SERVED IN THE U.S. ARMY FOR 22 YEARS. HE ALSO SPENT 16 YEARS WORKING AS A DEFENSE CONTRACTOR, MAINLY OUT OF WASHINGTON, DC. MALLOY IS MAKING HIS SECOND BID FOR A U.S. SENATE SEAT AFTER RUNNING AGAINST DEMOCRAT PETER WELCH IN THE 2022 ELECTION. HERE ARE THE RULES FOR TONIGHT’S DEBATE. EACH CANDIDATE WILL GET ONE MINUTE FOR OPENING AND CLOSING STATEMENTS. WE WILL ASK QUESTIONS. MOST WILL BE FOR BOTH OF YOU TO ANSWER. SOME WILL BE POSED DIRECTLY TO YOU. THE CANDIDATES WILL HAVE ONE MINUTE TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS. 32ND REBUTTALS WILL BE OFFERED AT OUR DISCRETION. SO LET’S BEGIN THIS EVENING WITH OUR OPENING STATEMENTS. MR. MALLOY, YOU GO FIRST. GOOD EVENING. VERMONTERS. MY NAME IS GERALD MALLOY. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING. WE ARE AT A CROSSROADS. YOUR VOTE IS GOING TO DETERMINE THE PATH FORWARD WE TAKE. VERMONT HAS BECOME UNAFFORDABLE, UNSAFE, AND A PLACE TO LEAVE. WE’VE BEEN LED TO THIS STATE BY THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT. WHAT WE NEED IS CHANGE AND RESULTS AND BALANCE AND ACTUAL REPRESENTATION. I WILL DELIVER RESULTS FOR VERMONT. I OFFER 40 YEARS OF WEST. I’M A WEST POINT GRAD, AN MBA, AND A FOREIGN SERVICE ALL OVER THE WORLD. I WILL TELL YOU, PEOPLE ASK ME ALL THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT EB FIVE BURLINGTON COLLEGE. GOING FROM WELFARE TO MILLIONAIRE. I’M NOT INTERESTED IN THAT. I’M INTERESTED IN A BETTER FUTURE FOR THE UNITED STATES AND FOR VERMONT. WE’RE NOT GOING TO GET THAT WITH THE 83 YEAR OLD SENATOR. HE’S HAD HIS CHANCE. IT’S TIME FOR RESULTS. MY NAME IS GERALD MALLOY. I WILL DELIVER RESULTS FOR YOUR SAFETY. PEACE ON EARTH AND OUR ECONOMY. I RESPECTFULLY ASK FOR YOUR VOTE. SENATOR SANDERS, YOUR OPENING STATEMENT. WELL, I THINK THE DIFFERENCES OF OPINION BETWEEN MR. MALLOY AND MYSELF COULD NOT BE CLEARER. MR. MR. MALLOY SUPPORTS DONALD TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT. I THINK TRUMP IS A DEMAGOGUE, AND I’M GOING TO DO EVERYTHING I CAN TO SEE THAT HE IS DEFEATED. MR. MALLOY THINKS THAT IT WAS OKAY FOR THE SUPREME COURT TO OVERTURN ROE V WADE AND TAKE AWAY A WOMAN’S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO CONTROL HER OWN BODY. I’M GOING TO DO EVERYTHING I CAN TO CODIFY ROE V WADE AND MAKE SURE THAT EVERY WOMAN IN THIS COUNTRY CAN, IN FACT, CONTROL THEIR OWN BODY, MR. MALLOY THINKS THAT AT A TIME WHEN MILLIONS OF WORKERS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE TRYING TO GET BY ON STARVATION WAGES, EIGHT, NINE, TEN BUCKS AN HOUR, THAT WE SHOULD NOT RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE TO A LIVING WAGE. I THINK IT SHOULD BE 15 BUCKS AN HOUR. MR. MALLOY THINKS WE’VE GOT TO STUDY CLIMATE CHANGE. WHEN EVERY SCIENTIST WHO HAS STUDIED THE ISSUE TELLS US IT’S REAL, IT’S AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. WE’VE GOT TO TRANSFORM OUR ENERGY SYSTEM. THE CHOICE IS PRETTY CLEAR. OUR DIFFERENCES ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT. LET’S START WITH THE ECONOMY. IT’S ONE OF, IF NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE WEIGHING ON VOTERS THIS ELECTION CYCLE. 250,000 JOBS, NEW JOBS THIS MONTH, 16 MILLION JOBS ADDED BY THIS CURRENT ADMINISTRATION. THE CURRENT UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS AT 4.1%. INFLATION IS AT 2.4%. BACK TO WHERE IT WAS IN FEBRUARY OF 2021, IT ALL SOUNDS GOOD, BUT A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WILL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW THEY ARE STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW TO PAY THEIR BILLS, PAY FOR PRODUCTS AND SERVICES. MR. MALLOY, YOU TALK ABOUT BRINGING JOBS TO VERMONT, THE GOVERNOR SAID HERE THE OTHER NIGHT. WE’VE GOT PLENTY OF JOBS. THE ISSUE HERE IS HOUSING. WHAT WILL YOU DO TO MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR VERMONTERS IF ELECTED? WELL, FIRST OFF, I’M NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, AND MY OPPONENT HERE IS GOING TO BRING UP DONALD TRUMP AND SOME OTHER ISSUES TO TRY TO DISTRACT YOU FROM THE DISASTROUS LAST FOUR YEARS, ALMOST FOUR YEARS THAT WE’VE HAD 40 YEAR HIGH INFLATION, TWO NEW WARS, WIDE OPEN BORDERS, FENTANYL AND CRIME CRISIS RIGHT HERE IN VERMONT. I’VE SEEN IT. I’VE ENGAGED 75,000 VERMONTERS. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? IT IS TIME FOR RESULTS, BERNIE. SENATOR SANDERS HERE HAS PRODUCED TWO, THREE BILLS, THREE OVER 34 YEARS. ONE OF THEM OF SIGNIFICANCE, TWO POST OFFICES. SENATOR LEAHY DID 80. JUST THINK ABOUT THAT. THE ECONOMY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. AND WHAT’S WHAT’S KEEPING OR HOLDING OUR ECONOMY BACK NOW, WE’RE STILL FEELING THE RESULTS OF OF THE 40 YEAR HIGH INFLATION THAT WAS CAUSED BY MASSIVE OVERSPENDING, 1.9 TRILLION WAS THE START OF THAT. MY OPPONENT WANTED THAT TO BE 4.4 TRILLION. OKAY. SO YOU HAVE 40 YEAR INFLATION. THAT WAS STILL ALL FEELING. IT WOULD BE MUCH, MUCH WORSE. WE’RE IN RECOVERY RIGHT NOW AND THE JOB FIGURES ARE MISLEADING. YOU KNOW I RUN INTO FOLKS AT WALMART. I SEE FOLKS THAT ARE RETIRED AND THEY’RE TAKING A SECOND JOB. MR. SANDERS, YOU HAVE SAID WE NEED AN ECONOMY FOR ALL. IF YOU RETURN TO OFFICE, WHAT COULD YOU GET DONE WITH REPUBLICANS TO MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR AMERICANS AND THEIR FAMILIES? WELL, WHAT WE NEED TO DO, AMONG OTHER THINGS, IS TO MAKE HEALTH CARE AFFORDABLE IN AMERICA. WE’VE GOT TO END THIS OUTRAGEOUS SITUATION WHERE WE ARE NOW SPENDING TWICE AS MUCH PER CAPITA ON HEALTH CARE AS THE PEOPLE OF ANY OTHER NATION, DESPITE THE FACT THAT WE’RE THE ONLY COUNTRY ON EARTH DOESN’T GUARANTEE HEALTH CARE TO ALL PEOPLE. NOW, I’VE BEEN WORKING HARD AS CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE WITH SUCCESS TO LOWER THE COST OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS IN THIS COUNTRY SO THAT WE DON’T CONTINUE TO PAY BY FAR THE HIGHEST PRICES IN THE WORLD FOR PRESCRIPTION DRUGS. UNDER MY EFFORTS, WE’RE GOING TO BE LOWERING THE COST OF ASTHMA INHALERS. WE’RE GOING TO BE LOWERING THE COST OF INSULIN FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES. AND I WORKED WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN ON THIS. MEDICARE IS GOING TO BE NEGOTIATING PRESCRIPTION DRUG COSTS WITH THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY. THE RESULT OF THAT IS A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION IN THE COST OF MEDICINE IN AMERICA. STICKING ON THE ECONOMY HERE WITH THE U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CONTINUING TO RISE AND TEMPORARY SPENDING BILLS BECOMING A RECURRING SOLUTION TO BUDGETARY ISSUES, WHAT STRATEGIES DO YOU PROPOSE TO ADDRESS THE LONG TERM SUSTAINABILITY OF THE FEDERAL BUDGET? SENATOR SANDERS, WE’LL START WITH YOU. WELL, FOR A START, THAT HAS THAT ISSUE OF THE NATIONAL DEBT AND THE FACT THAT TRUMP INCREASED THE NATIONAL DEBT DURING HIS TENURE BY ALMOST $8 TRILLION, IT HAS TO BE PUT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE FACT THAT WE HAVE MORE INCOME AND WEALTH INEQUALITY IN AMERICA TODAY THAN WE’VE EVER HAD IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY. SO YOU ASK ME ABOUT THE ECONOMY, YOU KNOW, WHAT’S GOING ON WITH THE ECONOMY. PEOPLE ON TOP HAVE NEVER, EVER HAD IT BETTER. WHILE 60% OF OUR PEOPLE ARE WORKING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK AND LIVING UNDER GREAT STRESS. SO WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO? WELL, FOR A START, NOT ONLY DO WE HAVE TO GUARANTEE HEALTH CARE TO ALL PEOPLE AS A HUMAN RIGHT, WE’VE GOT TO RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE TO A LIVING WAGE. I AGREE WITH KAMALA HARRIS THAT WE HAVE TO BUILD 3 MILLION UNITS OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING SO WE CAN LOWER THE OUTRAGEOUS COST OF HOUSING IN THIS COUNTRY. WE NEED JOBS, BUT WE NEED JOBS THAT PAY PEOPLE A LIVING WAGE. MR. MALLOY, HOW DO YOU BALANCE THE SUSTAINABILITY OF THE FEDERAL BUDGET? SURE. WELL, I’LL TALK ABOUT THE BUDGET IN A SET, BUT I HAVE TO MAKE SOME COMMENTS. YOU KNOW, HEALTH CARE IS SENATOR SANDERS SIGNATURE ISSUE. IT’S DONE NOTHING BUT SKYROCKET. VERMONT IS ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE STATES IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, AND I’VE GOT TO TELL YOU, BEING PART OF A COMMITTEE GRANDSTANDING, THAT’S NOT THE SOLUTION. THE SOLUTION IS ACTUALLY PRODUCING LEGISLATION TO LOWER HEALTH COSTS. HEALTH CARE COSTS, WHICH I WILL DO. YOU KNOW, LASTLY, YOU’RE GOING TO HEAR THE WHOLE EVENING, WE’RE GOING TO DO YOU’RE GOING TO HEAR THAT A LOT. THAT’S NOT WORKING RIGHT NOW. SO THE ECONOMY, WE HAVE A $36 TRILLION DEBT. THE FACT IS 2019 TO 2024, IT’S GONE UP ABOUT 60%. IT’S AT $36 TRILLION. THE THE NATIONAL DEBT AND HIS WATCH 34 YEARS IN CONGRESS HAS GONE UP. 1,100% UNSUSTAINABLE. THAT’S NOT ME. THAT’S THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTING OFFICE AND CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE. WE ARE HEADED TOWARDS A COLLAPSE. WE NEED SOME FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY, TAX AND SPEND IS NOT THAT. SENATOR SANDERS, DO YOU WANT TO RESPOND? WELL, LOOK, THE ISSUE IS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE NATIONAL DEBT, WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE A GROSSLY UNFAIR AND REGRESSIVE TAX SYSTEM. THE REALITY IS TODAY THAT BILLIONAIRES, IF YOU CAN BELIEVE IT, WE’RE GETTING MUCH RICHER. PAY AN EFFECTIVE TAX RATE THAT IS LOWER THAN WHAT NURSES OR TRUCK DRIVERS OR WORKING WORKING CLASS PEOPLE PAY. SO NUMBER ONE, WE NEED A TAX SYSTEM, WHICH IS FAIR DEMANDS THAT THE WEALTHIEST PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY START PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE OF TAXES. THE SECOND THING THAT WE HAVE GOT TO DO IS TAKE A HARD LOOK AT OUR SPENDING, INCLUDING THE PENTAGON. THAT’S $1 TRILLION A YEAR, AND IT’S THE ONLY AGENCY OF GOVERNMENT THAT HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO UNDERGO AN INDEPENDENT AUDIT. A QUICK FOLLOW UP FOR BOTH OF YOU RELATED TO A TAX LAW THAT FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP SIGNED INTO LAW IN 2017, THAT’S SET TO EXPIRE AT THE END OF 2025. THAT LAW LOWERED THE CORPORATE TAX RATE FROM 35% DOWN TO 21%, AMONG SOME OTHER CUTS. ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF LETTING THAT EXPIRE OR WOULD YOU KEEP IT IN PLACE? MR. SANDERS? NO, I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT KEEP IT IN PLACE AT A TIME. AGAIN, WHEN THE PEOPLE ON TOP ARE DOING PHENOMENALLY WELL, WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS THAT THEIR TAX RATE IS LOWER THAN WORKING CLASS PEOPLE. 83% OF THE BENEFITS OF TRUMP’S TAX BREAK WENT TO THE TOP 1%. AND PROFITABLE CORPORATIONS. SO YOU HAVE A SITUATION NOW WHERE YOU HAVE LARGE, PROFITABLE CORPORATIONS MAKING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR THAT ARE IN SOME CASES, PAYING NOTHING IN FEDERAL TAXES OR VERY LITTLE. SO WHAT WE NEED RIGHT NOW IS A TAX SYSTEM WHICH SAYS TO THE BILLIONAIRE CLASS, THEY’RE GOING TO HAVE TO START PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE OF TAXES, SAYS TO LARGE PROFITABLE CORPORATIONS, THEY’RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE OF TAXES. SO WE CAN FUND THE PROGRAMS THAT WE NEED AND TAKE THE TAX BURDEN OFF THE WORKING CLASS AND THE MIDDLE CLASS OF THIS COUNTRY. MR. MALLOY, WOULD YOU KEEP THAT TAX LAW IN PLACE? THE TAX CUT AND JOBS ACT? FACT IS, IT LOWERED TAXES FOR 80% OF AMERICANS. I WILL KEEP IT. BUT I HAVE TO SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS. THE FACT IS, 1% OF AMERICANS PAY 45% OF THE INCOME TAX REVENUE INTO OUR COUNTRY. 10% OF AMERICANS TOP 10% PAY 75%. SO OUR TAX STRUCTURE IS IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE. IT’S PRETTY FAIR AT THIS POINT. AND I WILL SAY, IF THERE NEEDS TO BE REVISION TO TAX LAWS, CONGRESS SHOULD DO THAT INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING ABOUT IT OR OR GRANDSTANDING ABOUT IT AND NOT DELIVERING RESULTS WHICH WHICH YOU JUST HEARD. MOVING ON HERE, REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS ARE NOT A NEW ISSUE IN THIS COUNTRY. THE OVERTURNING OF ROE V WADE HAS SENT THE AUTHORITY BACK TO THE STATES. IT IS NOW TOTALLY ILLEGAL TO GET AN ABORTION IN 13 STATES, SEVEN OTHERS HAVE RESTRICTIONS. VERMONT CODIFIED THIS LAW INTO LAW. RATHER, WE KNOW THAT YOU HAVE VERY DIFFERENT OPINIONS ON THIS ISSUE. THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO THE WOMEN WHO LIVE IN THOSE 20 STATES? WHO WANT OR NEED TO HAVE THE PROCEDURE? MR. MALLOY, MY MESSAGE IS I’M SEEKING TO BECOME A UNITED STATES SENATOR UNDER THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES. SERVE AND HERE’S WHAT I WANT TO SAY. I RESPECT WOMEN’S WOMEN’S RIGHTS, WOMEN’S HEALTH CARE. I RESPECT VERMONT’S LAWS. I ALSO RESPECT THE CONSTITUTION. ONE OF THE FOUNDATIONAL PRINCIPLES OF OUR CONSTITUTION IS TO HAVE THE PEOPLE AND THE STATES DECIDE IT IS A STATE ISSUE. IF A NATIONWIDE ABORTION BAN COMES UP TO THE UNITED STATES SENATE, I WILL NOT SUPPORT IT. I WILL NOT SUPPORT SWEEPING LEGISLATION AT THE US SENATE LEVEL. IT’S A STATE ISSUE. MR. SANDERS, LOOK, FOR 50 YEARS UNDER ROE V WADE, EVERY WOMAN IN THIS COUNTRY HAD THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO CONTROL HER OWN BODY. AND THEN A RIGHT WING SUPREME COURT OVERTURNED ROE V WADE. SO I THINK OUR JOB AND I SUPPORT WHAT WE’RE TRYING TO DO IN THE SENATE IS TO CODIFY ROE V WADE AND MAKE SURE THAT WOMEN NOT ONLY IN VERMONT BUT IN EVERY STATE IN THIS COUNTRY, HAVE HE RIGHT TO CONTROL THEIR OWN HEALTH CARE. AND THAT INCLUDES ABORTION RIGHTS. WE WANT TO WE WANT TO CONTINUE WITH THE TOPIC OF REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS. SENATOR SANDERS IVF IS VIEWED AS A GREAT ALTERNATIVE FOR FAMILIES WHO ARE HAVING STRUGGLES CONCEIVING. IT’S VERY EXPENSIVE. IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WOULD PROPOSE DOING TO LOWER THE COST OF THIS COSTLY PROCEDURE? OBVIOUSLY, YES. THE ANSWER IS YOU’RE RIGHT. MANY FAMILIES ARE HAVING A HARD TIME CONCEIVING. I THINK WE NEED A HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THAT IS EXPANDED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT COVERS IVF. THE PROCESS, MR. MALLOY, SAME QUESTION TO YOU. THIS IS A PROCEDURE THAT COSTS BETWEEN 14 AND $25,000, DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU LIVE. WOULD YOU SUPPORT ANYTHING AS FAR AS PROPOSING TO LOWER THE COST OF IVF PROCEDURES? I THINK THAT FALLS UNDER AS A STATE ISSUE AND A STATE CAN HANDLE THAT. BUT IF. MAY I RESPOND? GO AHEAD. LOOK, I MEAN, ALL OF THIS GETS BACK TO A BROKEN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, AND WE REMAIN THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT DOESN’T GUARANTEE BASIC HEALTH CARE NEEDS TO ALL PEOPLE. AND IVF IS ONE OF THOSE BASIC NEEDS. 25% OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO RECEIVE CANCER TREATMENT GO BANKRUPT OR DEPLETE THEIR ENTIRE FINANCIAL RESOURCES. THAT IS VULGAR AND THAT IS INSANE. SO THAT IS WHY THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES AGAINST THE DRUG COMPANIES, AGAINST THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, AGAINST ALL THE BIG MONEY INTERESTS TO FINALLY CREATE A HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THAT GUARANTEES ALL COMPREHENSIVE HEALTH CARE TO EVERY MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD IN THIS COUNTRY. MR. MALLOY, DID YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING? I DO, YOU KNOW, FIRST OFF, THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES IS ABOUT THE WORST SLOGAN I’VE EVER HEARD. I DON’T WANT THE STRUGGLE TO CONTINUE. I WANT VERMONT AND AMERICA TO PROSPER, NOT TO STRUGGLE. THIS ISSUE, HE’S TALKING ABOUT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, SHORT MEMORY. FOLKS, WE TRIED IT HERE IN VERMONT. DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR SHULMAN TO HIS CREDIT, STOPPED IT AFTER GOING WAY DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE HE SAW THAT IT WOULD BE A MASSIVE INCREASE OF COST BURDEN TO ALL VERMONTERS AND THE STATE OF VERMONT WAS NOT PREPARED TO HANDLE THAT SYSTEM. YOUR TAXES WILL GO UP BY 80% IF WE DO UNIVERSAL TAX, UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE REAL QUICK, REAL QUICKLY. THIS IS A GOOD DISCUSSION. YEAH. WILL TAXES GO UP? YEAH THEY WILL. BUT YOU’RE NOT. EXCUSE ME. EXCUSE ME, BUT YOU’RE NOT GOING TO BE HAVING TO PAY ANY MORE PREMIUMS FOR INSURANCE. YOUR EMPLOYER IS NOT GOING TO HAVE TO PAY ANYTHING. WE’RE GOING TO DO WHAT EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IS DOING. AND THERE IS TWO THINGS. THERE IS A REASON WHY THE UNITED STATES REMAINS THE ONLY MAJOR COUNTRY ON EARTH NOT TO GUARANTEE HEALTH CARE TO ALL PEOPLE. THAT HAS TO DO WITH MONEY IN POLITICS. POWER OF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES AND THE POWER OF THE DRUG COMPANIES. MR. MALLOY APPARENTLY THINKS THAT WE’RE TOO STUPID IN OUR COUNTRY TO BE ABLE TO DO WHAT EVERY OTHER MAJOR COUNTRY ON EARTH DOES. WE’RE GOING TO WE’RE GONNA WE’RE GOING TO CIRCLE. WE’RE GOING TO CIRCLE BACK ON THIS TOPIC LATER HERE IN THE DEBATE. WE’VE GOT AN HOUR TO GET TO IN THE MARKET ECONOMY. A LOT MORE TOPICS TO GET TO. GO AHEAD, LIZ. ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY. THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6TH, 2021 HAVE RAISED SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT THE STATE OF DEMOCRACY AND POLITICAL POLARIZATION IN THE UNITED STATES. HOW DO YOU VIEW THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT DAY, AND WHAT STEPS WOULD YOU TAKE TO ADDRESS POLITICAL VIOLENCE? MR. SANDERS, WE’LL START WITH YOU. WELL, I WAS THERE ON JANUARY 6TH, AND WHAT YOU HAD FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES IS A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. DONALD TRUMP, WHO FOMENTED AN INSURRECTION SO THAT HE WOULD NOT HAVE TO GIVE UP THE POWER THAT HE HAD. AND I THINK THE VERY FIRST THING THAT WE HAVE GOT TO DO IS MAKE SURE THAT DONALD TRUMP IS NOT RETURNED TO POWER, THE ESSENCE OF DEMOCRACY IS FREE ELECTIONS. AND WHEN YOU HAVE A FREE ELECTION, SOMETIMES YOU WIN AND SOMETIMES YOU LOSE. DONALD TRUMP LOST THAT ELECTION AND WE HAVE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT IN THIS COUNTRY, WE NEVER AGAIN HAVE A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO REFUSES TO ACCEPT DEFEAT. MR. MALLOY, YOU KNOW, DONALD TRUMP DID LOSE THAT ELECTION AND I, AS A U.S. SENATOR, I WILL CERTIFY THE ELECTION. JANUARY 6TH WAS A BAD DAY FOR OUR COUNTRY. AND WE NEED TO LEARN FROM IT. AND WE DO NEED TO MOVE ON. YOU KNOW, THOSE THAT BROKE THE LAW, I’VE SAID THIS MANY TIMES, NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE, AND THEY HAVE. I WILL SAY, I HOPE WE DON’T HEAR IT AGAIN TONIGHT. WE HEARD IN THE PREVIOUS TWO DEBATES, WE DID THE LAST COUPLE OF NIGHTS, THE ANGRY RHETORIC, THERE’S BEEN TWO ASSASSINATION ATTEMPTS AGAINST PRESIDENT TRUMP. SO THE ANGRY, THE ANGRY RHETORIC. RHETORIC HAS TO STOP. IF I CAN GO AHEAD REAL QUICKLY, IT’S NOT A QUESTION OF ANGRY RHETORIC. A U.S. SUPPORTING AN INDIVIDUAL FOR THE FIRST TIME IN AMERICAN HISTORY DID NOT SUPPORT THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. AND HE IS IN MY VIEW, BECOMING INCREASINGLY DANGEROUS. THAT’S NOT ANGRY RHETORIC. THAT’S FACT. THERE’S BEEN SOME VERY, VERY WATCH THE PREVIOUS TWO DEBATES, FOLKS. THERE’S BEEN SOME VERY BAD, FRANKLY, KIND OF DECORUM THAT THE UNITED STATES SENATOR NOT SHOULD NOT BE DROPPING DOWN TO CALLING SOMEONE PARTICULAR THING. SO PRESIDENT TRUMP, YOU KNOW, THAT’S AN OPINION ABOUT. FOMENTING JANUARY 6TH. DO YOU AGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT’S STANCE, THOUGH, THAT THE PEOPLE WHO STORMED THE CAPITOL THAT DAY ARE, QUOTE, PATRIOTS? YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HAD A RALLY THAT DAY. FOLKS WENT IN TO HEAR THEIR PRESIDENT SPEAK. AS I’VE SAID, MANY, MANY, MANY TIMES, ANYONE THAT BROKE THE LAW NEEDS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. A DIRECT QUESTION FOR YOU NOW, MR. SANDERS, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT DONALD TRUMP BEARS SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE JANUARY SIXTH ATTACKS? AND DO YOU THINK THAT HIS ACTIONS THAT DAY MAKE HIM FIT TO LEAD OUR COUNTRY AGAIN? WELL, TOMORROW MORNING I WILL BE GOING TO PENNSYLVANIA, THEN ON TO WISCONSIN TO DO EVERYTHING I CAN TO SEE THE KAMALA HARRIS AS OUR NEXT PRESIDENT. DONALD TRUMP IS DEFEATED. LOOK, WHEN YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO LIES ALL OF THE TIME, WHEN YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT, AS IN THE CASE OF JANUARY 6TH, IT WASN’T A RALLY. A PRESIDENT CAN TALK TO A RALLY. HE FOMENTED AN INSURRECTION WHERE SOME OF HIS SUPPORTERS, BY THE WAY, WERE TRYING TO URGING THAT MICHAEL PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT, BE HUNG BECAUSE HE WASN’T FOLLOWING WHAT TRUMP WAS WANTING HIM TO DO. SO THIS IS CLEARLY SOMEBODY UNFIT TO LEAD OUR COUNTRY. MR. MOLLOY, DO YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THAT? YOU KNOW, I MENTIONED DISTRACTIONS. IT’S EXACTLY WHAT’S GOING ON HERE. SO I AM NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. AND I WILL TELL YOU, I’LL BE VERY HONEST. THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP. I DON’T LIKE. BUT HERE’S WHAT I’LL SAY RIGHT NOW. THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS BEEN HIJACKED BY THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT, INCLUDING MY OPPONENT. LET’S LOOK AT THE LAST FOUR YEARS. WE HAVE TWO NEW WARS. WE HAVE 40 YEAR HIGH INFLATION. WE HAVE OUT OF CONTROL BORDERS. WE HAVE A FENTANYL CRISIS. I TELL YOU, EVERY PARENT IN VERMONT OUGHT TO BE ALARMED AND AND DISGUSTED BECAUSE YOUR CONGRESS HAS ENABLED THAT. AND FENTANYL IS EVERYWHERE. NO ONE HAS VISITED MORE PLACES IN VERMONT THAN ME LAST THREE YEARS. IT’S TIME UP. WELL, I’M GLAD YOU BROUGHT UP THE BORDER. WE ARE A BORDER STATE. LET’S TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION. WE ARE SEEING AN UNPRECEDENTED NUMBER OF CROSSINGS, BOTH AT THE SOUTHERN AND THE NORTHERN BORDER IN OUR REGION. BORDER PATROL AND THE SWANTON SECTOR SAYS IT’S APPREHENDED MORE THAN 19,000 SUBJECTS FROM 97 COUNTRIES SINCE OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR. THAT’S THE HIGHEST NUMBER ON RECORD FOR ONE YEAR. OUR QUESTION TO BOTH OF YOU WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN CONGRESS TO REDUCE THE CROSSINGS AND APPREHENSIONS AT OUR NORTHERN BORDER AND OUR SOUTHERN BORDER, FOR THAT MATTER? MR. MALLOY, LET’S START WITH YOU. SURE. JUST A LITTLE BIT OF FOLLOW UP. SO I’M I’VE DONE A LOT OF FUNDRAISING. I’VE RAISED ABOUT $500,000, AND I CAN TELL YOU, SENATOR SANDERS HAS RAISED $6.1 MILLION IN THIS ELECTION CAMPAIGN. I DON’T KNOW WHERE HE SPENT ALL THAT, BUT HE’S NOT SPENDING A LOT OF TIME, IS HE JUST TALKED ABOUT HERE IN VERMONT, WHERE HE’S REPRESENTING NOW. THE QUESTION WAS REAL QUICK. THE QUESTION IS TO YOU WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN CONGRESS TO REDUCE THESE RECORD SETTING CROSSINGS AND APPREHENSIONS? SECURE THE BORDER AT THE BORDER. OKAY. WE NEED TO SECURE THE BORDER LIKE I LIKE. I JUST SAID, I VISITED BURLINGTON BENNINGTON BRATTLEBORO RUTLAND SAINT JOHNSBURY, SPRINGFIELD WALKED AROUND THERE. WE HAVE A DRUG CRISIS, A FENTANYL CRISIS, AND IT’S A DISGRACE THAT HERE IN AMERICA, OUR CONGRESS CAN’T ENSURE YOUR SAFETY. I WILL, SO LET’S SECURE THE BORDER. AND IF WE NEED SOME IMMIGRATION LAW CHANGE, THAT’S WHAT CONGRESS IS SUPPOSED TO DO. BUT THIS I WORKED WITH DHS 17 YEARS AGO. THE BORDER WAS OUT OF CONTROL. THEN DRUGS AND CRIME COMING ACROSS. NOW IT’S BOTH BORDERS. AS BRIAN JUST MENTIONED, THERE’S CHECK OUT THE SWANTON SECTOR REPORT. IT’S POURING IN BOTH BORDERS. AND YOUR CONGRESS HAS JUST LET THIS HAPPEN. I WON’T, SENATOR IT WE NEED TO DO TWO THINGS. NUMBER ONE, WE NEED TO SECURE OUR BORDERS. AND WE DO THAT BY INCREASED MANPOWER AND INCREASE TECHNOLOGY. MY FATHER CAME TO THIS COUNTRY AT THE AGE OF 17 AS AN IMMIGRANT, LEGALLY, WE HAVE TO SUPPORT LEGAL IMMIGRATION, BUT WE HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN TO STOP ILLEGAL PEOPLE. PEOPLE COMING INTO THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY. THE SECOND THING THAT WE NEED TO DO IS TO DEVELOP COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM, WHICH HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT FOR DECADES, AND THAT DEALS WITH THE FACT THAT YOU’VE GOT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY, SOME OF WHOM CAME HERE AT THE AGE OF 1 OR 6 MONTHS, WHO HAVE WORKED HARD. MAYBE THEY’RE TEACHERS, MAYBE THEY’RE IN THE MILITARY, MAYBE THEY’RE SMALL BUSINESS PEOPLE. DONALD TRUMP WANTS TO DEPORT THESE PEOPLE. I THINK THAT THAT IS AN OUTRAGE. WE NEED TO MOVE TOWARD A PATH TOWARD CITIZENSHIP. SO COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM, STRENGTHENING THE BORDER, STOPPING ILLEGAL PEOPLE COMING INTO THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY, BUT ALSO PROVIDING A PATH TOWARD CITIZENSHIP FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE AND HAVE BEEN GOOD CITIZENS. WE WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH BOTH OF YOU ON THIS TOPIC. SENATOR SANDERS IS THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO BLAME FOR THE RECENT SURGE AT THE BORDER? NO. I MEAN, YOU CAN CAST BLAME ALL OVER THE PLACE. WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING AT AROUND THE WORLD IS SERIOUS MIGRATION ISSUES, AND THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE COMING FROM COUNTRIES WHERE THERE’S A LOT OF VIOLENCE, WHERE CLIMATE CHANGE HAS DRIVEN PEOPLE OFF OF THEIR FARMS, AND THEY’RE FLOCKING NOT ONLY TO THE UNITED STATES, BUT IN EUROPE AS WELL. I THINK IN THE LAST YEAR, WE HAVE MADE SOME PROGRESS. THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE COMING INTO THIS COUNTRY HAS GONE DOWN. IT IS STILL A VERY MAJOR PROBLEM. SO ONCE AGAIN, WE NEED TO SECURE THE BORDERS AND WE DO THAT THROUGH INCREASED MANPOWER. WE USE THE TECHNOLOGY THAT IS AVAILABLE AND WE WORK TOWARD COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM. MR. MALLOY, A QUESTION FOR YOU. THE FORMER PRESIDENT HAS SUGGESTED DURING HIS CAMPAIGNING THAT IF HE IS REELECTED, HE WOULD LIKE TO USE THE NATIONAL GUARD AND EVEN SOME LOCAL POLICE AGENCIES TO GO DOOR TO DOOR LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ILLEGALLY IN THIS COUNTRY. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT APPROACH? NO, I DO NOT. AND THERE’S MORE TO THAT. I’LL TELL YOU THE SECURE OUR BORDERS IS A THAT’S A DIFFERENT TUNE YOU’RE HEARING NOW. NO, I DO NOT SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT’S IDEA TO TRY TO DEPORT WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS. TEN, 20, 20 MILLION MORE CRIMINALS. YES. EVERY LEGAL IMMIGRANT THAT’S BEEN IN THE COUNTRY FOR 40 YEARS, NO DRUG TRAFFICKING ACROSS THE US BORDER REMAINS A SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGE CONTRIBUTING TO THE OPIOID CRISIS THAT WE ARE FEELING HERE IN OUR COMMUNITY. AS WELL AS THE VIOLENCE. WHAT STRATEGIES DO YOU PROPOSE TO EFFECTIVELY STOP THIS, MR. MALLOY? LET’S GO TO YOU. WELL, IT STARTS WITH SECURING THE BORDER AND ACTUALLY WILL CONTINUE WITH PUTTING SOME VERY SERIOUS SANCTIONS ON CHINA AND MEXICO. MOST OF THE THE FENTANYL PRECURSORS ARE COMING UP INTO MEXICO BEING MADE IN MEXICO AND COMING ACROSS OUR WIDE OPEN BORDERS. IT’S ALSO COMING FROM THE NORTHERN BORDER ALSO. SO SANCTIONS ON CHINA, I WOULD ACTUALLY WE’RE STILL FEELING THE EFFECTS OF THE GEORGE FLOYD ACT AND DEFUND THE POLICE EVERY DEMOCRAT IN THE HOUSE VOTED FOR THAT. WE’RE STILL FEELING THAT EFFECTS. SO I SUPPORT OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY TO START ENFORCING LAWS. WE’VE GOT WHAT I’LL CALL IT, THE PROGRESSIVE PROSECUTOR MOVEMENT, CATCH AND RELEASE HERE IN BURLINGTON ACROSS VERMONT. AND IT’S NOT WORKING. SO THOSE ARE A FEW THINGS TO START TO ADDRESS. THE FENTANYL CRISIS. AND LIKE I MENTIONED, IT’S EVERYWHERE, FOLKS. AND I’LL TELL YOU, I TOLD THE STORY IN THE LAST DEBATE. I JUST TALKED TO A VERMONT EMS LAST WEEK. HE GOT OFF SHIFT. HOW WAS IT? IT WAS HORRIBLE. I HAD MADE 19 CALLS, 11 OF THEM WERE FOR OVERDOSES. SO IT’S OUT THERE AND IT’S A DISGRACE THAT WE’VE BEEN KICKING THIS CAN DOWN THE ROAD WITH OUR US CONGRESS. AND MY OPPONENT FOR A VERY LONG TIME, AND HE’S STOPPED. SENATOR SANDERS WELL, WE’VE GOT TO DO A NUMBER OF THINGS. MR. MALLOY IS RIGHT. OBVIOUSLY, IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH SECURING THE BORDER AND MAKING SURE THAT FENTANYL AND OTHER TERRIBLE DRUGS DO NOT COME INTO THIS COUNTRY. BUT IT’S ONLY IT’S NOT JUST AN ISSUE OF DRUGS COMING ACROSS. HE HAD COMPANIES LIKE PURDUE, AN OPIOID MANUFACTURER WHO IS SPREADING THESE ADDICTIVE DRUGS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, AND NOW THEY’RE BEING FORCED TO PAY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN FINES. THE OTHER THING THAT I THINK WE’RE NOT DOING A GOOD JOB ON, AND WE’RE TRYING TO GET FUNDING TO DO IT, IS PREVENTION. I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT THEY CAN PLAY AROUND WITH OPIOIDS, GET HIGH. YOU KNOW, THIS TIME AND NEXT WEEK, NOT UNDERSTANDING THE EXTRAORDINARILY ADDICTIVE QUALITY OF THESE DRUGS. THIRD POINT THAT I WOULD MAKE IS WE ARE MAKING SOME SUCCESS, SOME PROGRESS HERE IN VERMONT. GOT A LONG WAY TO GO, BUT WE NEED A LOT MORE MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELORS. WE NEED A LOT MORE TREATMENT CAPABILITIES IN THIS COUNTRY. ADDICTION IS A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE DISEASE. IT AIN’T EASY TO GET OFF OF AND WE NEED TO PUT MORE RESOURCES AND PROVIDE MORE COUNSELORS AND MORE HELP FOR THOSE WHO ARE ADDICTED. MR. MALLOY, DID YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING? YEAH. REAL QUICK AGAIN, FOLKS. CONGRESS, WHAT YOU’RE HEARING IS MORE GRANDSTANDING. GETTING IN FRONT OF A PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY EXECUTIVE OR A HEALTH CARE EXECUTIVE AND GRILLING THEM. THAT DOESN’T DO ANYTHING. THAT’S NOT A RESULT. IT’S ACTUAL LEGISLATION, WHICH MY OPPONENT HAS FAILED TO DO IN 34 YEARS. I AGREE, WE NEED MORE IN EDUCATION. WE’VE GOT SOME GREAT PROGRAMS HERE, LIKE I JUST MET TODAY, TURNING POINT. JENNA’S PROMISE. SO WE’VE GOT SOME I WANT TO SUPPORT THOSE MORE TO HELP FOLKS WITH ADDICTION REAL QUICK. YOU KNOW, TAKING ON THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY AND THEIR INCREDIBLE GREED, WHICH IS CHARGING US IN SOME CASES, TEN TIMES MORE FOR THE SAME DRUG AS THE PEOPLE IN OTHER COUNTRIES THAT MR. MALLOY IS NOT GRANDSTANDING. THAT’S WHAT A US SENATOR SHOULD BE DOING. AND I’M PROUD THAT AS A RESULT OF MY EFFORTS AND OTHER PEOPLE’S EFFORTS, WE HAVE DRIVEN DOWN THE COST OF INSULIN. WE’VE DRIVEN DOWN THE COST OF ASTHMA INHALERS. AND IN FACT, FOR THE FIRST TIME, BECAUSE MEDICARE IS NOW NEGOTIATING PRICES, YOU’RE GOING TO SEE ON SOME OF THE MOST WIDELY USED DRUGS A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION IN PRICES. THAT’S PARTLY WHAT I HAVE ACCOMPLISHED. ALL RIGHT. WE DO HAVE TO MOVE ON HERE JUST FOR TIMING. AS OF SEPTEMBER OF THIS YEAR, THERE HAVE BEEN AT LEAST 50 SCHOOL SHOOTINGS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES. THESE HORRIBLE TRAGEDIES ARE NOW BECOMING A ROUTINE PART OF AMERICAN LIFE. MANY OF THESE INSTANCES HAVE HAPPENED BECAUSE A YOUNG PERSON HAS HAD ACCESS TO A FIREARM. IN OTHER CASES, AN ASSAULT WEAPON LIKE AN AR 15. HOW CAN WE STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING? MR. SANDERS? WELL, WE NEED COMMON SENSE, GUN SAFETY LEGISLATION. THAT’S WHAT WE NEED. AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS SUPPORTED BY THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. THE OTHER THING THAT WE DO, AND SOME OF THESE HORRIFIC, UNSPEAKABLE SITUATIONS THAT YOU DESCRIBE IN SCHOOLS AND ELSEWHERE, IS THEY ARE COMMITTED WITH AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, WHICH WERE DESIGNED FOR MILITARY USE. THESE ARE WEAPONS DESIGNED TO KILL LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. I THINK WE SHOULD BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS IN THIS COUNTRY. IT’S NOT GOING TO SOLVE ALL OF THE PROBLEMS, BUT IT WILL BE A HELPFUL STEP FORWARD. MR. MALLOY. THANK YOU. YOU KNOW, GOING BACK OKAY, INSULIN PRICES WENT DOWN 4200 OUT OF THE DRUGS WENT UP. INFLATION REDUCTION ACT HAS FAILED. YOU KNOW, I SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT. I’LL TELL YOU A BECAUSE I JUST SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT. AND I BELIEVE IN OUR CONSTITUTION, BUT B BECAUSE WE HAVE WIDE OPEN BORDERS, IT’S UNSAFE. I SUPPORT THE RIGHT FOR EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN, LAW ABIDING AMERICAN CITIZEN TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILY. MARK, REAL QUICKLY, LOOK, I SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT AS WELL, BUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT DOESN’T INCLUDE HAVING A NUCLEAR LAUNCHER IN YOUR BACKYARD. ASSAULT WEAPONS ARE MILITARY WEAPONS DESIGNED TO KILL PEOPLE RAPIDLY. AND WE HAVE SEEN THE HORRIFIC IMPACT OF THAT IN SCHOOLS. AND ON CHILDREN IN AMERICA. THE UNITED STATES IS ACTUALLY ARMALITE IS WHAT R STANDS FOR, BY THE WAY, THE UNITED STATES IS CURRENTLY NOT AT WAR WITH TROOPS ON THE GROUND IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES. YET WE CONTINUE TO FUND EFFORTS ABROAD, BOTH IN UKRAINE AND THE MIDDLE EAST, WITH BOTH GETTING AID FROM US. LET’S START WITH UKRAINE TO DATE, THE U.S. HAS SUPPLIED $64 BILLION IN AID. THE QUESTION TO YOU IS DO YOU SUPPORT THE U.S. CONTINUING TO FUND THE WAR IN UKRAINE? HOW DO YOU SEE THIS WAR COMING TO AN END EITHER ON THE GROUND OR NEGOTIATING WITH RUSSIA ON A COMPROMISE? MR. MALLOY, ONE MINUTE TO YOU. SURE. FOREIGN POLICY FAILURE WITH THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT. ONE OF THE REASONS I CANNOT VOTE FOR KAMALA HARRIS. KAMALA HARRIS, THIS DATES BACK TO AFGHANISTAN. THAT DEBACLE OF WITHDRAWAL. PUTIN SAW THAT I SERVED IN THE PERSIAN GULF DURING THE COLD WAR. I KNOW ALL ABOUT SOVIET UNION. I KNOW ALL ABOUT HIS INTENTS. WHEN HE SAW THAT WEAKNESS, HE ACTED. I’M NOT IN FAVOR OF THROWING MONEY IN A BLACK HOLE OVER TO UKRAINE. I AM, AND I HAVE BEEN SINCE DAY ONE IN FAVOR OF SUPPORTING UKRAINE. AND WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE IS THE NEXT ADMINISTRATION IS GOING TO BRING PEACE IN EUROPE IN THE MIDDLE EAST. WE DON’T HAVE THAT. NOW, I WANT TO ASK YOU, I WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH YOU REAL QUICKLY. IS THIS WAR WON ON THE GROUND OR NEGOTIATING WITH PUTIN AND RUSSIA? I’M NOT SURE HOW IT’S GOING TO HOW IT’S GOING TO END. I WANT TO SUPPORT UKRAINE. BUT WHAT I THINK, I THINK WHERE THIS IS HEADED AT THIS POINT IS FOR THE NEXT ADMINISTRATION. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO COME IN AND WE WILL SEE PEACE. SENATOR SANDERS, DO YOU SUPPORT THE UNITED STATES CONTINUING TO FUND THE WAR IN UKRAINE? HOW DO YOU SEE THIS WAR COMING TO AN END, EITHER ON THE GROUND OR COMPROMISE? YOU KNOW, PROBABLY A COMBINATION OF BOTH. BUT LET’S BE CLEAR. IT’S SO EASY TO BLAME PRESIDENT BIDEN FOR EVERY PROBLEM IN THE WORLD. PUTIN IS A DISGUSTING DICTATOR WHO LAUNCHED AN UNPRECEDENTED THE FIRST MAJOR WAR IN EUROPE SINCE WORLD WAR TWO. IT WAS A BRUTAL ATTACK TRYING TO TAKE OVER AN INDEPENDENT, DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY, UKRAINE. IF UKRAINE FALLS, WHAT THE PEOPLE IN EASTERN EUROPE WILL TELL YOU IS THEY WORRY VERY MUCH THAT POLAND WILL GO NEXT AND OTHER COUNTRIES AS WELL. SO I THINK PUTIN HAS GOT TO BE STOPPED. BUT OBVIOUSLY WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS TO END THIS TERRIBLE WAR, THIS DESTRUCTIVE WAR AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN. MR. MALLOY, REAL QUICKLY. YEAH, REAL QUICK. CRIMEA. RUSSIA INVADED CRIMEA. THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION DID. ZERO LOOKED THE OTHER WAY. WE DO WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON THIS TOPIC. THERE ARE ALSO THERE’S ALSO THE WAR BETWEEN ISRAEL AND GAZA, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE HAVE DIED. HOSTAGES ARE STILL BEING HELD. BOTH HARRIS AND TRUMP HAVE SAID THEY’RE PRO-ISRAEL AND PRO-PEACE. BUT HOW DO WE HELP THEM GET THERE? MR. MALLOY, I STRONGLY SUPPORT ISRAEL, ACTUALLY 100% SUPPORT ISRAEL. THAT’S OUR ALLY IN THE MIDDLE EAST. YOU KNOW, I CONDEMN THE ANTI-SEMITISM THAT WE SEE ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I ACTUALLY CONDEMN SOME OF THE RESPONSES, INCLUDING FROM MY OPPONENT, THAT DON’T ACTUALLY CONDEMN THAT. I WOULD SAY ACTUALLY EVEN SUPPORT IT. YOU KNOW, ISRAEL, THERE WAS A TERRORIST ATTACK AND AGAIN, A FOREIGN POLICY DISASTER. WHAT HAPPENED WAS HAPPENING THERE AND IT’S REALLY BAD. WE WE ARE FUNDING IRAN AGAIN. WE WEREN’T. NOW WE ARE. AND WE WE ENTERED INTO A A NUCLEAR AGREEMENT WITH NO TEETH TO IT. SO WE’RE IN FACT SUPPORTING THEIR NUCLEAR WEAPONS DEVELOPMENT. THE WORLD IS A MUCH LESS SAFE PLACE. IRAN FUNDS HAMAS, HEZBOLLAH AND THE HOUTHIS. THEY DID THE OCTOBER SEVENTH TERRORIST ATTACK. I SUPPORT ISRAEL. MR. SANDERS, PLEASE DON’T TELL ME THAT I SUPPORT ANTI-SEMITISM. MY FAMILY’S MY FATHER’S FAMILY WAS WIPED OUT IN POLAND. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW, PLEASE JUST DON’T GO THERE. ALL RIGHT? WHAT YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW IN ISRAEL AND GAZA IS A SITUATION WHERE ON OCTOBER THE SEVENTH, HAMAS, A TERRIBLE TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, LAUNCHED AN HORRIFIC ATTACK AGAINST ISRAEL, KILLING 1200 INNOCENT PEOPLE, TAKING 200 HOSTAGES. ISRAEL OF COURSE, HAD A RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF AGAINST HAMAS. BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE IS ISRAEL HAS GONE TO WAR AGAINST THE ENTIRE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE. 40,000 PEOPLE ARE DEAD. TWO THIRDS OF WHOM ARE WOMEN, CHILDREN AND THE ELDERLY, 100,000 ARE WOUNDED, TWO THIRDS AGAIN WOMEN, CHILDREN AND THE ELDERLY COMPLETE INFRASTRUCTURE DESTROYED, HEALTH CARE SYSTEM DESTROYED. EVERY UNIVERSITY BOMBED AND RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE ISRAEL IS BLOCKING HUMANITARIAN AID, WE’RE LOOKING AT MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF CHILDHOOD MALNUTRITION AND IN FACT, STARVATION. IT IS MY VERY STRONG OPINION THAT ISRAEL RIGHT NOW UNDER A RIGHT WING EXTREMIST GOVERNMENT OF BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, IS VIOLATING NOT ONLY INTERNATIONAL LAW BUT AMERICAN LAW, AND SHOULD NOT, SO LONG AS THEY CONTINUE THESE POLICIES, RECEIVE ONE NICKEL MORE OF U.S. MILITARY AID OR FOREIGN ASSISTANCE. MR. MALLOY, DID YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING, SENATOR, I DON’T THINK YOU ARE ANTI-SEMITIC AT ALL. WHAT I WAS SAYING IS, I DO THINK THAT YOU’RE VERY MUCH SO. COULD HAVE MORE STRONGLY CONDEMNED THAT ANTI-SEMITIC ACTIVITY ACROSS THE UNITED STATES ON OUR COLLEGE CAMPUSES. AND I PRAY FOR PEACE EVERY DAY. I’VE BEEN IN COMBAT. THANK YOU BOTH. WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK. WE’LL CONTINUE OUR U.S. SENATE DEBATE WHEN WE COME BACK. WELCOME BACK TO THE VERMONT U.S. SENATE DEBATE WITH INDEPENDENT SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS AND HIS REPUBLICAN CHALLENGER, GERALD MALLOY. WE HAVE SOME DIRECT QUESTIONS NOW FOR THE CANDIDATES ON HEALTH CARE STARTING WITH SENATOR SANDERS. YOU HAVE LONG ADVOCATED FOR MEDICARE FOR ALL AS A SOLUTION TO AMERICA’S HEALTH CARE CRISIS, CALLING IT A HUMAN RIGHT. CRITICS ARGUE THAT WHILE THE PLAN IS AMBITIOUS, ITS COSTS COULD BURDEN THE ECONOMY AND RESULT IN HIGHER TAXES FOR MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES. HOW DO YOU PLAN TO IMPLEMENT THIS SYSTEM WITHOUT NEGATIVELY IMPACTING THOSE THAT YOU AIM TO HELP? AND HOW WILL YOU ENSURE QUALITY HEALTH CARE FOR ALL? IT WOULD BE AN EXTRAORDINARY BOON FOR THE ECONOMY AND FOR EVERY MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD. IF YOU ARE A WORKER, YOUR EMPLOYER RIGHT NOW IS TELLING YOU YOU CAN’T GET A WAGE INCREASE BECAUSE THE COST OF HEALTH CARE IS SOARING. IF YOU ARE UNINSURED, YOU MAY NOT GO TO THE DOCTOR BECAUSE YOU CAN’T AFFORD OUT OF POCKET EXPENSES. ONE OUT OF FOUR PEOPLE CAN’T EVEN AFFORD PRESCRIPTION DRUGS IN THIS COUNTRY. THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF AMERICANS BRIGHTON BELIEVE THAT HEALTH CARE IS A HUMAN RIGHT. OKAY, THE FUNCTION OF OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS NOT TO MAKE DRUG COMPANIES AND INSURANCE COMPANIES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR IN PROFIT. SO WHAT WE NEED IS WE HAVE IN MEDICARE A PRETTY GOOD STRUCTURE. IT HAS TO BE EXPANDED TO COVER DENTAL, VISION AND HEARING. AND OVER A FIVE YEAR PERIOD, WE WOULD LOWER THE AGE OF ELIGIBILITY FROM 65 DOWN TO 55. THEN EVENTUALLY WE COVER EVERY MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD. THAT’S THE MORAL THING TO DO, AND THAT’S THE GOOD ECONOMIC THING TO DO. WHEN YOU DO THAT, PEOPLE WILL NOT BE PAYING ANY MORE IN INSURANCE PREMIUMS OR OUT OF POCKET EXPENSES. I WANT TO QUICKLY JUST FOLLOW UP WITH YOU. I KNOW YOU HAVE PUSHED FOR THIS FOR YEARS WITH THE CURRENT MAKEUP OF WASHINGTON, D.C. IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, DO YOU THINK THIS IS REALISTIC? WELL, IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN TOMORROW, BUT WHAT IS REALISTIC IS KAMALA HARRIS IS NOW TALKING ABOUT EXPANDING MEDICARE TO COVER HOME HEALTH CARE, TO COVER HEARING AIDS, AND TO COVER VISION. THAT’S A STEP FORWARD. BUT THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES. YOU KNOW, WE’RE TAKING ON ENORMOUSLY POWERFUL FORCES WHOSE GREED IS HAVING A TERRIBLE IMPACT ON OUR WHOLE SOCIETY. IT IS NOT MEDICARE FOR ALL. IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN TOMORROW. IT’S MY BILL. I ONLY GOT 15 CO-SPONSORS, BUT I THINK WE’VE GOT TO CONTINUE THAT FIGHT. MR. MALLOY, A QUESTION FOR YOU. CAN YOU CLARIFY FOR US? YOUR WEBSITE SAYS THAT YOU DO NOT SUPPORT GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION ON INDUSTRIAL POLICY RELATED TO DRUG AND HEALTH CARE PRICES, BUT YOU DO SUPPORT CHANGES TO PATENT LAWS THAT COULD DECREASE DRUG PRICES. CAN YOU JUST CLEAR UP YOUR STANCE FOR US? SURE. OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS PRETTY MUCH BROKEN AND IT DOES NEED TO BE FIXED. I’M NOT IN FAVOR OF UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. IT’S NOT GOING TO WORK. IT WOULD. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A $36 TRILLION DEBT. MY OPPONENT’S PLAN WOULD COST SOMEWHERE. MAYBE AROUND $12 TRILLION. IT WOULD INCREASE TAXES FOR EVERY AMERICAN. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? WE’RE A FREE MARKET, FREE ENTERPRISE COUNTRY. WE’RE NOT A SOCIALIST COUNTRY. WE HAVE SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT NEED TO BE FIXED. WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, THERE ARE SOME DIFFERENT OPTIONS. YOU KNOW, WE CAN LOOK AT CREATING TRANSPARENCY THROUGH LEGISLATION, CREATING COMPETITION THROUGH LEGISLATION. THAT’S NOT HAPPENING. AND ONE OF THE THINGS I’VE THOUGHT ABOUT, I’VE ACTUALLY TALKED TO PHARMACEUTICAL AND INDUSTRY REPRESENTATIVES. YOU KNOW, IF IT TAKES IF THERE’S A TEN YEAR PATENT, MAYBE IF WE SHORTEN THAT DOWN TO FIVE YEARS, IT WOULD GET A NEW DRUG ON THE MARKET QUICKER. I’LL ALSO SAY I WANT TO LOOK AT THE FDA AND FIND OUT WHY IT COST $1 BILLION TO GET A NEW DRUG ON THE MARKET. THE NEXT SERIES OF QUESTIONS ARE FOR BOTH OF YOU. YOU MAY HAVE READ THE RECENT REPORT FROM THE GREEN MOUNTAIN CARE BOARD THAT SUGGESTS THE VAST MAJORITY OF VERMONT’S 14 HOSPITALS NEED MAJOR REFORMS IN ORDER TO PREVENT GOING INTO DEBT BY THE YEAR 2023, A MATTER OF FACT, 13 TO 14 WOULD BE IN DEBT BY THAT YEAR. WHAT SPECIFIC MEASURES WOULD YOU ADVOCATE TO SUPPORT VERMONT’S STRUGGLING HOSPITALS AND ENSURE THAT VERMONTERS ARE GETTING QUALITY HEALTH CARE HERE IN THE STATE, PARTICULARLY IN RURAL AREAS? SENATOR SANDERS, LET’S START WITH YOU. WELL, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE IMMEDIATELY. A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, THE LARGEST HOSPITAL IN THE STATE, THAT’S THE UVM MEDICAL CENTER, SPENT $125 MILLION IN ONE YEAR ON TRAVELING NURSES, PAYING THEM 2 OR 3 TIMES MORE THAN LOCAL NURSES. THAT IS ABSURD. SO WHAT WE’VE GOT TO DO, AND WE ARE WORKING ON IT. AND I INTRODUCED LEGISLATION. WE’VE GOT TO TRY TO GET IT THROUGH COMMITTEE. WE GOT IT THROUGH THE COMMITTEE, GREATLY EXPAND THE ABILITY OF PEOPLE TO BECOME NURSES, LOCAL PEOPLE BECOMING NURSES, RATHER THAN HOSPITALS. AND NURSING HOMES DEPENDENT ON TRAVELING NURSES. THAT WILL SAVE AN ENORMOUS SUM OF MONEY. IT TURNS OUT THAT LARGE HOSPITALS LIKE UVM ARE SPENDING 20% OF THEIR BUDGET ON PRESCRIPTION DRUGS. SOME OF THESE DRUGS COST. IN FACT, THERE’S AN INSTANCE THAT I HEARD WHERE ONE DRUG COST $1 MILLION A YEAR FOR TREATMENT AND THAT IS WHY WHEN WE LOWER THE COST OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS AMONG OTHER THINGS, WE DON’T ONLY MAKE IT AFFORDABLE FOR ALL AMERICANS, WE LOWER HOSPITAL BILLS AND HEALTH CARE COSTS AS WELL. MR. MALLOY, THE VERMONT HOSPITAL SYSTEM IS STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW. THEY’RE CALLING FOR MAJOR RECONSTRUCTION. WHAT WOULD YOU ADVOCATE FOR? THAT’S A TOUGH QUESTION. YOU KNOW, I’D SAY TO START WITH IS TO ACTUALLY HAVE A MUCH STRONGER ECONOMY, WHICH WE HAD FIVE YEARS AGO. WE HAD 1.9% INFLATION. THE ECONOMY WAS ROLLING ALONG, AND WE HAD MASSIVE OVERSPENDING THAT LED TO 40% HIGH INFLATION. AND WE’RE STILL FEELING IT TODAY. SO I THINK THAT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH AN OVERALL STRONGER ECONOMY. YOU KNOW, I THINK I THINK AS A SENATOR, I COULD LOOK INTO ACTIVITIES OF MAJOR HEALTH CARE ORGANIZATIONS. AND I THINK PART OF THE ISSUE THERE MAY BE OF SUMMER, SUMMER BUYING UP OR FRANKLY, TRYING TO PUT OUT OF BUSINESS SMALLER RURAL HEALTH CARE FACILITIES. BRIAN, IF I CAN RESPOND, ANOTHER AREA THAT WE ARE VERY WEAK IN OUR BROKEN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, WHICH IS DESIGNED TO MAKE PROFITS FOR THE COMPANIES, IS IN DISEASE PREVENTION. PEOPLE ARE GETTING SICK. THEY END UP GOING TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM, WHICH COSTS TEN TIMES MORE THAN GOING TO A COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTER. I’VE BEEN VERY ACTIVE WITH CONSIDERABLE SUCCESS IN MAKING SURE THAT THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF VERMONT, WE HAVE A GROWTH IN COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS, WHICH PROVIDE AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE, DENTAL CARE, WHICH IS A MAJOR CRISIS, AND AND LOW COST PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELING. SO MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE CAN GO TO A DOCTOR WHEN THEY NEED TO, RATHER THAN END UP IN AN EMERGENCY ROOM, WILL ALSO LOWER THE COST THAT HOSPITALS ARE EXPERIENCING QUICKLY. MR. REAL QUICK, A COUPLE OF A COUPLE OF GREAT SOLUTIONS HERE. LOOK INTO THE FDA AND THE AMOUNT OF TOXIC INGREDIENTS THAT ARE BEING PUT INTO OUR FOOD. A AND ACTUALLY LOOK TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF EXERCISE OUR YOUNG KIDS GET. WELL, WE WOULD LIKE TO MOVE ON HERE. WITH STUDENT LOAN DEBT REACHING HISTORIC LEVELS AND EDUCATION COSTS CONTINUING TO RISE, WHAT SPECIFIC POLICIES DO YOU PROPOSE TO MAKE HIGHER EDUCATION MORE AFFORDABLE AND ACCESSIBLE, AND HOW WOULD YOU ADDRESS THE BURDEN OF STUDENT DEBT ON GRADUATES, WHILE ENSURING THAT QUALITY EDUCATION IS AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE? MR. MALLOY? SURE. WELL, I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE IDEA OF THE PRESIDENT UNILATERALLY DECIDING HE’S GOING TO SPEND $500 BILLION OF YOUR TAX DOLLAR TO PAY SOMEONE ELSE’S DEBT. I DON’T AGREE WITH THAT. THAT’S CONGRESS’S JOB. AND I ACTUALLY DON’T THINK IT’S RIGHT. OVERALL, IT’S SENDING OUT A BAD MESSAGE IN TERMS OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN DEBT. WHAT I WOULD LOOK AT IS WITHIN CONGRESS MEANS TO LOWER THAT DEBT FOR STUDENTS THAT HAVE STUDENT DEBT, MAYBE WIPING OUT SOME OF THE INTEREST PAYMENT OR COSTS. BUT GETTING BACK TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS CONTROLS POWER OF THE PURSE. I DON’T LIKE TO SEE OUR PRESIDENT GO AHEAD AND DO THAT. AND I WILL ASK, ACTUALLY, WE TALKED ABOUT HEALTH CARE A LOT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT’S GOING ON RIGHT NOW, HEALTH CARE IS A LITTLE BIT OF A BACK DOOR ACTIVITY GOING AFTER GOING ON RIGHT NOW WITH $5 BILLION TO PAY FOR INSURANCE PREMIUMS. SO THAT AMERICAN TAXPAYERS, AMERICAN AMERICANS DON’T HAVE TO PAY THAT JUST BEFORE THE ELECTION. THAT’S ONE OF THE FAILURES OF THE INDUSTRIAL. EXCUSE ME, INFLATION REDUCTION ACT, EXCUSE ME, SENATOR SANDERS. WELL, LOOK, INSTEAD OF GIVING MASSIVE TAX BREAKS TO BILLIONAIRES AND LARGE CORPORATIONS, WHICH IS WHAT TRUMP DID, INSTEAD OF SPENDING $1 TRILLION ON THE MILITARY, WHAT I THINK WE SHOULD DO IN A HIGHLY COMPETITIVE GLOBAL ECONOMY IS MAKE SURE THAT EVERY YOUNG PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY IS ABLE TO GET THE HIGHER EDUCATION OR THE TRAINING. SOME PEOPLE WANT TO GET TRAINING TO BE WELDERS OR SHEET METAL WORKERS, AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT HAPPENS AS WELL. BUT BOTTOM LINE IS IT IS INSANE TO MY VIEW THAT WHEN YOUNG PEOPLE WANT TO GET A HIGHER EDUCATION, TO GET A DECENT JOB, WHICH WE DESPERATELY NEED IN OUR COUNTRY AND IN A COMPETITIVE GLOBAL ECONOMY, THAT THEY ARE LEAVING SCHOOL 50, $75,000 A YEAR IN DEBT. YOU WANT TO BECOME A DOCTOR IF YOU’RE FROM A WORKING CLASS FAMILY, YOU’RE GOING TO LEAVE MEDICAL SCHOOL $500,000 IN DEBT. THAT’S INSANE. MY OWN VIEW IS WE SHOULD MAKE PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES TUITION FREE, ENCOURAGE YOUNG PEOPLE TO GET THE EDUCATION THAT THEY NEED, NOT LEAVE THEM FINANCIALLY IN FINANCIAL DISTRESS. LET’S CONTINUE THE EDUCATION DISCUSSION RIGHT HERE. EVERY CHILD IN THIS COUNTRY DESERVES A FREE EDUCATION. THE QUESTION IS, WHERE DO YOU STAND ON THE ROLE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN PUBLIC EDUCATION? IF THEY’RE NOT, QUOTE, FOOTING THE BILL FOR THE SCHOOLS, SHOULD THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION BE ELIMINATED AND SHOULD IT BE LEFT UP TO STATE AND LOCAL DISTRICTS TO DECIDE WHAT HAPPENS? I’M GOING TO GIVE YOU SECONDS ON THAT QUESTION RIGHT THERE. SENATOR SANDERS, LET’S START WITH YOU. WELL, APPROXIMATELY 100 YEARS AGO, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT? IT’S WRONG THAT JUST THE KIDS OF THE RICH CAN GET A GOOD EDUCATION WHILE OUR KIDS ARE WORKING IN FACTORIES AND IN THE FIELDS AND THEY FOUGHT AND ACHIEVED FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION. THAT WAS 100 YEARS AGO. GOD DID NOT DETERMINE THAT FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION ENDS AT THE 12TH GRADE. THE WORLD HAS CHANGED AND WE’VE GOT TO STRENGTHEN THAT PROCESS SO THAT FREE PUBLICATION, PUBLIC EDUCATION APPLIES TO PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES AS WELL. SO YOU WOULD STRENGTHEN THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION? I WOULD MAKE SURE THAT EVERY KID IN THIS COUNTRY WHO WANTS A HIGHER EDUCATION IS ABLE TO GET IT, REGARDLESS OF HIS OR HER INCOME. ALL RIGHT, MR. MALLOY, YOU HAVE CALLED FOR THE DISSOLVING OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION. IT’S A STANCE THAT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP STANDS BY AS WELL. I DON’T KNOW IF I ACTUALLY CALL FOR DISSOLVING. I THINK IT WAS ON YOUR WEBSITE. IF YOU’RE. I WOULD LOOK AT IT IF IF I’M INCORRECT, YOU CAN CORRECT ME RIGHT NOW. NO, YOU ABSOLUTELY WANT TO LOOK AT THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND ITS VALUE. I AM NOT SURE THAT IT IS ADDING VALUE. SO I AM GOING TO LOOK AT THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND CONSIDER IT, POSSIBLY GET RID OF IT. I’M NOT. THAT’S A STATE ISSUE. AND PARENTS YOU KNOW AND I WOULD ACTUALLY GO BACK. MY OPPONENT MADE A COMMENT. YOU KNOW THERE’S NO FREE LUNCH. THERE ISN’T AN ECONOMIST MILTON FRIEDMAN SAID THAT IT ACTUALLY TAUGHT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO. WELL, YOU WERE THERE. BUT YOU KNOW, AND GOING BACK, YOU KNOW, MED SCHOOL COSTS. YEAH, WE GOT A BIG PROBLEM BECAUSE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE SOCIALISM DOCTORS MAKE ABOUT THE SAME AS NURSES. SO WE’VE GOT A BIG DISCONNECT THERE. LET ME JUST IF I MAY RESPOND REAL QUICKLY, BUGABOO ABOUT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHY OUR FRIENDS 50 MILES NORTH OF US IN CANADA AND WHY EVERY OTHER MAJOR COUNTRY ON EARTH IS ABLE TO GUARANTEE HEALTH CARE TO ALL OF THEIR PEOPLE WITH GOOD QUALITY AT 50% OF THE COST THAT WE ARE SPENDING, IN MY VIEW, AND THE VIEW OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, HEALTH CARE, WHETHER YOU’RE RICH OR YOU’RE POOR, YOUNG OR YOU’RE OLD, IT IS A HUMAN RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE. LAST WORD ON THIS, MR. MALLOY. GOING DOOR TO DOOR IN BURLINGTON DID ABOUT 200 HOMES, KNOCKED ON THE DOOR. A YOUNG LADY CAME OUT, INTRODUCED US, RECOGNIZED ME. SHE SAID, I’M A NURSE. AND SAID HER TWO FRIENDS, DOVER JARRED HILL MALLOY, SAID HE’S RUNNING FOR US SENATE IN THE BACK ROOM, YOUNG LADY SAID, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE? AND SHE SAID SOMETHING I CANNOT REPEAT ON AIR. IT WAS NOT GOOD. HE SAID. MY WHOLE FAMILY IS FROM CANADA. IT DOES NOT WORK. ALL RIGHT. WELL THANK YOU. IF I COULD RESPOND, YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS, THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN CANADA IS INFINITELY MORE POPULAR AMONG THE CANADIAN PEOPLE THAN THE AMERICAN DYSFUNCTIONAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. THAT’S A FACT. ALL RIGHT. WE’D LIKE TO MOVE ON NOW TO CLIMATE CHANGE OVER THE PAST DECADE, WE’VE SEEN MORE INTENSE WEATHER EVENTS ACROSS OUR COUNTRY, INCLUDING WILDFIRES OUT WEST, DEVASTATING HURRICANES DOWN SOUTH AND MULTIPLE FLOODING DISASTERS RIGHT HERE IN VERMONT. CLIMATE SCIENTISTS PREDICT THAT THESE INCIDENTS WILL ONLY BECOME MORE POWERFUL AND MORE FREQUENT IF MORE ISN’T DONE TO COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE. WHAT ARE YOUR IDEAS TO ADDRESS THIS PRESSING ISSUE? SENATOR SANDERS? WE’LL START WITH YOU. LOOK, VIRTUALLY EVERY SCIENTIST WHO HAS STUDIED THE ISSUE UNDERSTANDS THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL. IT’S CAUSED BY HUMAN ACTIVITY AND CARBON EMISSIONS AND NOT ONLY THE UNITED STATES, BUT THE ENTIRE WORLD HAS GOT TO COME TOGETHER AND DRASTICALLY CUT CARBON EMISSIONS BY TRANSFORMING OUR ENERGY SYSTEM AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUEL. DONALD TRUMP, ON THE OTHER HAND, THINKS THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX. I HAVE WORKED VERY HARD ON THIS ISSUE, AND I’M VERY PROUD THAT ONE OF THE BILLS THAT I PASSED OF MANY ON THIS ISSUE IS A $7 BILLION BILL, WHICH WILL BRING $62 MILLION INTO THE STATE OF VERMONT TO HELP WORKING CLASS FAMILIES, FAMILIES PUT SOLAR PANELS ON THEIR ROOFTOPS THAT WILL NOT ONLY CUT ELECTRIC BILLS FOR THOSE FAMILIES BY 80% OR SO, IT WILL ALSO HAVE AN IMPACT IN CUTTING CARBON EMISSIONS. SO WE OUGHT TO TRANSFORM OUR ENERGY SYSTEM. WE’VE GOT TO MOVE TO SUSTAINABLE, CLEAN ENERGY AND RECOGNIZES THAT WE HAVE TO WORK WITH OTHER COUNTRIES IN ORDER TO DEAL WITH THIS EXISTENTIAL THREAT. MR. MALLOY. SURE. A COUPLE OF THINGS THERE. SO I SUPPORT AN ALL OF THE ABOVE ENERGY SOLUTION OUTLOOK. I’VE ACTUALLY READ THE GREEN NEW DEAL. IT IT’S NOT GOING TO WORK AND IT’S NOT IT’S NOT CONGRESS AS A GOVERNMENT’S JOB TO CREATE HIGH PAYING UNION JOBS. VERMONT IS NUMBER 50 IN TERMS OF EMISSIONS. IF YOU DO THE MATH, ACTUALLY, WITH THE 3 BILLION TREES AND THE AMOUNT OF CO2 THAT WE EMIT, IT’S CONSUMED. SO I WANT TO HAVE A REASONABLE PLAN. AND FRANKLY, WE’RE BEHIND RIGHT NOW. SO WHAT I’VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT IS TAKING THE INTEREST IN THE CLIMATE AND ENVIRONMENT. AND EMISSIONS OF OUR YOUNG PEOPLE AND DEVELOPING A TECH HUB. EXCUSE ME, HERE IN VERMONT, TO DEVELOP RELIABLE, SAFE, CLEAN, AFFORDABLE ENERGY SOLUTIONS. WELL, MAY I JUST REAL QUICK, I MEAN, LOOK, WE IT IS EITHER IT IS REAL AND WE FACE AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS OR IT IS NOT. AND IN MY VIEW, WE HAVE GOT TO BE VERY BOLD IN GOING FORWARD, IN MAKING SURE WE SAVE THIS PLANET FOR OUR KIDS AND FUTURE GENERATIONS. ON THE SAME TOPIC, FEMA IS AN IMPORTANT RESOURCE TO HELP COMMUNITIES RECOVER FROM THESE DISASTROUS EVENTS. THEY’VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME HERE IN VERMONT OVER THE LAST TWO SUMMERS, BUT THE ORGANIZATION HAS FACED SCRUTINY REGARDING ITS FUNDING AND RESPONSE CAPABILITIES DURING THESE NATURAL DISASTERS. YOU LOOK AT NORTH CAROLINA, THE MOST RECENT WHAT SPECIFIC REFORMS WOULD YOU ADVOCATE TO ENSURE THAT FEMA CAN DO THEIR JOB? MR. MALLOY, SECONDS ON THIS ONE, PLEASE. SURE. I WORKED WITH DHS FOR ABOUT FIVE YEARS. I’VE ACTUALLY WORKED ON 20 ABOUT 20 PRESIDENTIAL DISASTER DECLARATIONS WITH FEMA. IT’S A BUREAUCRACY. IT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT. THE STAFFORD ACT COMING FROM VERMONT’S GOVERNOR, SENATOR STAFFORD, NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT. AND I THINK THERE’S ALSO WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE FOR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT FEMA DOES AND WHAT FEMA DOES NOT DO. AND I ALSO I’VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE. I WOULD ACTUALLY ENGAGE THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS FOR PROJECTS, WORK THEM THROUGH PROJECTS HERE IN VERMONT TO REDUCE AND MITIGATE FLOODING. SPECIFIC REFORMS TO ADVOCATE TO ENSURE THAT FEMA CAN DO THEIR JOB. WHAT WHAT WOULD YOU ADVOCATE? TWO THINGS GIVEN WHAT CLIMATE IS DOING ALL OVER OUR COUNTRY AND THE DISASTERS THAT WE HAVE SEEN NOT ONLY IN VERMONT, BUT IN FLORIDA, NORTH CAROLINA AND ELSEWHERE? WE NEED MORE FUNDING FOR DISASTER RELIEF. THAT’S A FACT. AND SECOND OF ALL, I THINK THERE’S NO QUESTION THAT FEMA IS A BUREAUCRACY. I THINK THEY’RE TRYING HARD TO DO THE RIGHT THING, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE MORE LOCAL INPUT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A COMMUNITY LIKE PLAINFIELD, VERMONT IS NOT THE SAME AS LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA. OUR FINAL QUESTION TONIGHT, AGE HAS BEEN A QUESTION IN THIS CAMPAIGN. AND 1 IN 1 IN THE WHITE HOUSE AS WELL. THE REASON THE PRESIDENT IS NOT SEEKING REELECTION IS BECAUSE HIS AGE AND COGNITIVE ABILITIES WERE PUT INTO QUESTION AFTER THE FIRST DEBATE IN LATE JUNE, RATHER THAN ASKING YOU ABOUT TERM LIMITS, WHICH WE BOTH KNOW WHERE YOU STAND, SHOULD PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES AND THOSE RUNNING FOR OFFICE OVER A CERTAIN AGE UNDERGO INDEPENDENT TESTING TO DETERMINE IF THEY’RE FIT FOR OFFICE? MR. MALLOY, WHAT DO YOU THINK I’M IN FAVOR OF THAT, SENATOR SANDERS? I’M NOT IN FAVOR OF THAT. LOOK, ONCE YOU START DOWN THAT PATH OF SAYING, WELL, YOU GOT TO CHECK THIS BOX AND YOU GOT TO DO THIS THING, AND YOU’RE THAT, OR YOU REALLY ARE IN A PROCESS OF UNDERMINING DEMOCRACY. BASICALLY, WHAT AN ELECTION IS ABOUT. PEOPLE TALK ABOUT TERM LIMITS. WHAT THIS IS ABOUT IS TERM LIMITS. PEOPLE DON’T WANT ME. THEY REPLACE ME. THAT’S WHAT FREE ELECTIONS ARE ABOUT IN TERMS OF AGE. YOU KNOW, QUESTIONS ARE RAISED ABOUT DONALD TRUMP’S MENTAL ACUITY AS WELL. WHAT WE HAVE GOT TO DO IS LOOK AT THE TOTALITY OF THE PERSON. WHAT DOES THAT PERSON STAND FOR? HOW EFFECTIVE HAVE THEY BEEN? WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO DO? SO AGE IS A FACTOR. EXPERIENCE IS A FACTOR. BUT YOU GOT TO LOOK AT A WHOLE WIDE RANGE OF ISSUES. MR. MALLOY, DID YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING? YEAH. REAL QUICK. I MEAN, LET’S GO BACK FOUR YEARS, PUT PRESIDENT BIDEN IN THE BASEMENT. HE HAD CAPABILITY, CAPACITY ISSUES. AND FRANKLY, OUR WHOLE COUNTRY. I EVEN WONDER WHO’S ACTUALLY IN CHARGE RIGHT NOW. WHAT ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP BEING IN GOOD MENTAL SHAPE? I THINK HE IS ACTUALLY. AND I DON’T KNOW IF YOU WATCHED THE DEBATE WITH HIM AND PRESIDENT BIDEN THAT WAS SCARY. BUT I DID WATCH THE DEBATE BETWEEN HIM AND KAMALA HARRIS. THAT WAS ALSO SCARY FROM TRUMP PERFORMANCE. WELL, IT’S MORE THAN A PERFORMANCE. I THINK IT WAS WELL, WELL, WE HAVE REACHED THE END OF THIS HOUR LONG DEBATE. TIME FOR YOUR CLOSING STATEMENTS, MR. MALLOY. YOU ARE UP FIRST. THANK YOU. NBC FIVE. SO VERMONT. VERMONT HAS BECOME UNAFFORDABLE, UNSAFE AND A PLACE TO LEAVE. AND THIS ELECTION IS ABOUT CHANGE AND DELIVERING RESULTS. IF YOU DON’T WANT CHANGE, REELECT AN 83 YEAR OLD PROGRESSIVE LEFT CAREER POLITICIAN, 34 YEARS IN CONGRESS. HE’S DELIVERED FALSE PROMISES, RECORD HIGH HEALTH CARE, TWO NEW WARS, 40 YEAR HIGH INFLATION, OPEN BORDERS, A FENTANYL CRISIS AND A $36 TRILLION DEBT. IF YOU THINK WE NEED A CHANGE AND WE CERTAINLY DO ELECT A WEST POINT GRADUATE VETERAN WITH AN MBA WITH 40 YEARS OF RELATIVE EXPERIENCE, VERY RELATIVE EXPERIENCE, WORK AND LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE, DELIVERING RESULTS, I WILL DELIVER RESULTS FOR VERMONT FOR YOUR FOR THE ECONOMY, FOR SAFETY AND FOR PEACE ON EARTH. I LOVE OUR BRAVE LITTLE STATE. MY NAME IS GERALD MALLOY. I RESPECTFULLY REQUEST YOUR VOTE. SENATOR SANDERS, YOUR CLOSING STATEMENT. MR. MALLOY, I DIDN’T KNOW I HAD THE POWER TO DO ALL OF THOSE THINGS SINGLE HANDEDLY. WOW. YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING. WELL, I HAVE DONE SOMETHING. LET ME TELL YOU WHAT I’VE DONE. WE’VE EXPANDED VETERANS HEALTH CARE IN THE STATE OF VERMONT, MAKING THE WHITE RIVER JUNCTION HOSPITAL PROBABLY THE BEST VA HOSPITAL IN THE UNITED STATES. WE’VE EXPANDED, EXPANDED COMMUNITY BASED OUTREACH CLINICS FOR OUR VETERANS AROUND THE STATE. WE’VE GREATLY EXPANDED OUR COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS AROUND THE STATE. I BROUGHT IN SOME $2 BILLION BECAUSE I’M A MEMBER OF THE ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE, $2 BILLION INTO INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE STATE OF VERMONT IN ORDER TO REBUILD OUR CRUMBLING ROADS AND BRIDGES AND WATER SYSTEMS AND WASTEWATER PLANTS AND I’M LEADING THE EFFORT IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE. RIGHT NOW TO LOWER THE OUTRAGEOUSLY HIGH COST OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS. SO WE’VE BEEN MAKING PROGRESS. OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO. AND AS THE LONGEST SERVING INDEPENDENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS, I WANT TO THANK THE PEOPLE OF VERMONT FOR THE SUPPORT THEY’VE GIVEN ME IN THE PAST AND WOULD VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR SUPPORT IN THIS ELECTION AS WELL. AND THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE TONIGHT. WE’D LIKE TO THANK THE TWO OF YOU FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT. WE KNOW THIS IS THE THIRD STRAIGHT NIGHT THAT THE TWO OF YOU HAVE GONE HEAD TO HEAD. WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND THANK YOU AT HOME FOR TUNING IN TO THIS DEBATE. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO REWATCH THIS DEBATE OR ANY OF THE OTHERS THAT WE’VE HOSTED THIS ELECTION SEASON, THEY’RE AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW ON OUR WEBSITE, MYNBC5.COM. ELECTION DAY IS TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 5TH. BE SURE TO GET OUT AND VOTE. GOOD NIGHT EVERYBODY. PLEASE VOTE.
Vermont U.S. Senate candidates Bernie Sanders, Gerald Malloy debate at NBC5 studio
Updated: 11:10 PM EDT Oct 25, 2024
With Election Day just 11 days away, U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders and challenger Gerald Malloy participated in a live debate at the NBC5 studio in South Burlington on Friday night.Sanders, a three-term senator to Vermont and former presidential candidate, is seeking a fourth term in office, while Malloy, a Veteran and political newcomer who previously ran for Patrick Leahy’s seat in 2022, faced off in a debate moderated by Liz Strzepa and Brian Colleran. Watch an on-demand version of the debate in the video player above.
SOUTH BURLINGTON, Vt. —
With Election Day just 11 days away, U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders and challenger Gerald Malloy participated in a live debate at the NBC5 studio in South Burlington on Friday night.
Sanders, a three-term senator to Vermont and former presidential candidate, is seeking a fourth term in office, while Malloy, a Veteran and political newcomer who previously ran for Patrick Leahy’s seat in 2022, faced off in a debate moderated by Liz Strzepa and Brian Colleran.
Watch an on-demand version of the debate in the video player above.
